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Kampfgruppe Edelweiss Discussion of Historical Information Related to German Ground Forces in WWII. Hosted by Gebirgsjäger Historian and Collector Patrick Kiser (Heeresbergführer)

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Old 11-09-2005, 03:57 PM   #1
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1/6th scale vs. 1/1 scale Gebirgsjäger Equipment

Well, I'm just getting started with kitbashing 1/6th Gebirgsjägers, 12 at the moment, but I do have the advantage of owning a good collection of original 1/1 scale Gebirgsjäger uniforms and equipment (see my website) and can make a fairly good judgement on the accuracy of the 1/6th scale uniforms and equipment.



I think I have all the Gebirgsjäger uniforms and equipment from Dragon with the exception of the Handschar figure and the radio operator. I don't have any of the DID stuff yet, but I have looked at photos of their gear.



Let's start at the top and work our way down.

1. Bergmütze (Mountain Cap)...I have caps from Gunther, Kater, Alfons, and Hermann. Some caps fit some heads better than others. I think I like Alfons' cap the best, though I find all the hats a bit too floppy. I have a Cotswold cap which I think has the best shape...but you need to add the T-form Adler-Cockade to the front and replace the Edelweiß with one from Dragon. It would be nice to have the white camo cover for the Bergmütze...the one that came with Alfons is for the helmet.




2. Goggles...Alfons' goggles are pretty close to the real things...best that I know of.




3. Windbluse & Windhose...well you have the Green version from Gunther and the White version from Alfons. Both are good...though the Windhose from both need to be bigger and baggier. The Windbluse doesn't have any way to tighten the wrist straps and both don't have the crotch strap that keeps the jacket from billowing up in high winds. Would be nice to have functioning back pockets too.



4. Windjacke...this is the double-breasted jacket that comes with Major Kater and Alfons. The Alfons one is far superior to the Kater one though it could be a little darker green...the real ones are about the same color as a WW II US shelter-half.



5. Tunics...gotta love the Alfons tunic. Just depends one what rank and style you want...all are pretty good.






6. Berghosen and/or M43 Keilhosen....I love the Steingrau Berghosen that come with Alfons. These are the early type with the leather ankle strap that is suppose to be strapped over the top of the boot....which I'm finding hard to do. These Berghosen should have a sewn crease down the front of the leg (see SixtyDrivers Figure on his website). Would be nice to see some officer Skihosen in the future.



7. Bergschuhe (mountain boots)...well...when is someone going to make real leather versions of these!!!! Some cloth Wickelgamaschen (puttees) would be nice too. How about some Ski boots?



8. M1931 große Gebirgsjäger Rucksack...from looking at the DID photos and the actual Dragon rucksack...both look about the same and are pretty close to the real ones....only problem is that both don't have complete shoulder straps!!!! It's nice that they included the waist strap, but most Gebirgsjägers didn't use them. Would also be nice to see the color coded stuff stacks that go with the ruck.



9. Ice Axe....The Alfons ice axe is ok...wrong wrist strap on it...can be detailed into a nice one. I like what I see from DID's Ice Axe with the leather head cover, correct wrist strap, but the end of the ice axe seems a little funky.



10. Piton hammer...Alfons all the way...though originals have a leather strap. Note: There are two types of piton hammers that the Gebirgsjägers used. One is the Kletterhammer (pictured below) which is for rock climbing, the other one is the Eishammer (which Alfons comes with) which is for ice climbing.
11. Pitons...ok...need some work.
12. Carabiners...I think I saw some modern action figure that had real working ones...bent wire just doesn't do it for me.



13. Snowshoes...Alfons...Christian....need to cut out the plastic and restring them with model ship builder's rigging! Check out SixtyDrivers' rendition.



14. Campons...Alfons...just need the canvas and metal pouch the they go into....add ice and you're off climbing!

15. Skis and poles....Alfons...need to detail them like SixtyDrivers!!! Those are the top boards!!! Can also paint the skis white with a green stripe down the front of the ski to the binding. Poles need lots of work...leather hand grip and strap....baskets need to be thinner and have leather thongs.





16. Climbing Rope....chuck the stuff that comes with the figures...not even close...use model ship builder's rigging string or cotton string. A standard 1/1 scale Gebirgsjäger climbing rope is 10mm in diameter and 40 meters in length....convert this into 1/6th scale. Also need to make sling cords which were from 6mm rope and came as 1 meter & 2 meter slings.

17. Styrian Gamaschen....Hansen/Slavko...I've only seen the photos so far...look pretty good to me...other than the Handschar, these were also primarily used by Hochgebirgsjägers (High Alpine Mountain Troops...the best skilled mountaineers...the Wehrmacht had 4 Independent Battalions of them).


18. G33/40...Alfons....nice Czech weapon that was only issued to FJ's and GJ's. Follow Mountain Troopers techniques for repainting it.




That's all that I can think of off the top of my bald head!!! If you have any other specific Gebirgsjäger related questions, just post them and I'll answer them as best I can.

I will be posting more photos later.

Hurra die Gams und Horrido!
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Old 11-09-2005, 06:38 PM   #2
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Awesome post Patrick!

What are the shoes/boots to the right of the ski boots? Those wouldn't happen to be a free climbing shoe would they?
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Old 11-09-2005, 07:20 PM   #3
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Awesome post Patrick!

What are the shoes/boots to the right of the ski boots? Those wouldn't happen to be a free climbing shoe would they?
Servus Sixty Driver,

Yes, those are Kletterschuhe (climbing shoes) with felt soles.

Berg Heil!
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Old 11-09-2005, 09:08 PM   #4
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Before I blew out my knee I loved to ski and rock climb and when I first saw the Gebirgsjägers figures I had to get them. I love this subject but I am about as clueless as it gets. My favorite German figures are my skiers/mountain troops. I have only six figures dressed in winter gear and ten pairs of skis and snow shoes. I plan on buying more winter gear. Is there anything I should read that I can learn more on the Gebirgsjägers?
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Old 11-09-2005, 09:40 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnro6659";p=&quot View Post
Before I blew out my knee I loved to ski and rock climb and when I first saw the Gebirgsjägers figures I had to get them. I love this subject but I am about as clueless as it gets. My favorite German figures are my skiers/mountain troops. I have only six figures dressed in winter gear and ten pairs of skis and snow shoes. I plan on buying more winter gear. Is there anything I should read that I can learn more on the Gebirgsjägers?

Servus Jäger John,

Yeah, that's how I got interested in Mountain Troops, from Telemark skiing and climbing in the Alps! Sorry to hear about your knee.

Sounds like you have a great Gebirgsjäger Zug going! Do you have any photos of them? I would like to see what other folks are doing.

As far as reading and learning more about Gebirgsjägers, there is one book out that covers just about everything you wanted to know about them but were afraid to ask! It is by German Gebirgsjäger Historian and Author, Roland Kaltenegger and titled "German Mountain Troops in World War II." You can get it online at Amazon or from the publisher:
http://www.schifferbooks.com/newschi...sbn=0764322184

After you get this book you'll be kit bashing for a long time! I've only been kit bashing figures for about 2 weeks and I'm now up to 17 Gebirgsjäger figures!

Mit einem kameradschaftlichen Horrido!
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Old 11-10-2005, 07:40 PM   #6
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Woah! Even for somebody like myself who knows nothing about the Dark side let alone this particular unit, this was very enlightening. Made me want to venture over....for a tic. Thanks for the information and the comparsion format you presented it in.

My belated Welcome as latest Historical Forum host,

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Old 11-10-2005, 08:48 PM   #7
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That's an amazing collection you have there: awsome!!

I know where to find a Gebirgsjäger-expert now

I love the tunic in the 11th pic, I'm really envious now! LOL
I agree completely with Sgt. Rock,
I'm interested in the 'dark side' too, and this was a great post for future reference.
I also like the Jäger-drawings,
drawing is another big hobby of mine...

Grüssen, Anouk
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Old 11-10-2005, 10:34 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bildschirmjaeger";p=&quot View Post
That's an amazing collection you have there: awsome!!

I know where to find a Gebirgsjäger-expert now

I love the tunic in the 11th pic, I'm really envious now! LOL
I agree completely with Sgt. Rock,
I'm interested in the 'dark side' too, and this was a great post for future reference.
I also like the Jäger-drawings,
drawing is another big hobby of mine...

Grüssen, Anouk

Servus Anouk,

Greetings to the Netherlands and Eindhoven! A beautiful country and city. I liked visiting there when I lived in Germany.

Thanks to you and Sgt. Rock for the compliment on my collection. I found much of it at flea markets in Germany, Austria, Holland, Belgium, and France. I've been collecting mountain troop militaria for over 20 years now.

You may take a special note about the tunic in picture #10. It is a rare tropical wool tunic for the Dutch East Indies Army that was captured by the Germans in Holland and converted into a Gebirgsjäger tunic!

The drawings are by a German War Artist named Josef Buchty. I have a large portfolio of his sketches and watercolor paintings. I have over 50 pieces from him...mostly study sketches like the one I posted. I may have to publish them in a book. I'm trying to find more information about him and the unit that he made the sketches with. I did find out recently that he was a student at the Munich School of fine art before the war. And that a famous American watercolor artist studied under him after the war. Just need to find his wartime records. Here are a few more:





Mit freundlichen Grüßen aus Amerika!
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Old 11-11-2005, 12:37 AM   #9
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Here are the six guys I'm am working on. I just dug them out and need to find the rest of thier stuff. I have no clue what they are really supposed to have for gear I just go buy what the DiD and DML figures came with and I order the loose stuff from the online retailers when I send in orders. I like the all white look because of all the snow we tend to get here in New England I used to get cool outdoor photos in real snow. Thanks for the tip on the book I'm going to do a search for it used see if I can score it fairly cheap. Eventually I am going to make a shelf/Dio to look like snowy slope. I was looking at some scrap clear acrylic at the plastic supplier that they screwed up on. I was thinking of grabbing and using my Dremel on it to look like ice so I can make a soldier climbing an ice covered cliff. I know the figures are no where near correct that is why I need to learn more about the Gebirgsjäger troops.






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Old 11-11-2005, 01:14 AM   #10
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Your collection is really unbelivable!
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Old 11-11-2005, 03:34 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnro6659";p=&quot View Post
Here are the six guys I'm am working on. I just dug them out and need to find the rest of thier stuff. I have no clue what they are really supposed to have for gear I just go buy what the DiD and DML figures came with and I order the loose stuff from the online retailers when I send in orders. I like the all white look because of all the snow we tend to get here in New England I used to get cool outdoor photos in real snow. Thanks for the tip on the book I'm going to do a search for it used see if I can score it fairly cheap. Eventually I am going to make a shelf/Dio to look like snowy slope. I was looking at some scrap clear acrylic at the plastic supplier that they screwed up on. I was thinking of grabbing and using my Dremel on it to look like ice so I can make a soldier climbing an ice covered cliff. I know the figures are no where near correct that is why I need to learn more about the Gebirgsjäger troops.
Servus Jäger Johann,

Looks like you have a good start on your Zug. Once you get the book, you will know what to do with them!

Berg Heil und Horrido!
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Old 11-11-2005, 11:03 AM   #12
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Thanks, I know they are not close to being done and I can't find a few parts I had for them. I also have a box with DiD and DML equipment from their Gebirgsjäger figures I bought loose. Things are hectic here I have a ton of stuff to straighten out here and I'll come across the stuff soon as I unearth the boxes of German stuff. I do have a question. I have both DiD and DML pioneer equipment, did the Gebirgsjäger have Pioneers/Demolition troops?

Thanks

By the way I forgot to mention probably because I was in awe this in my first post here your collection of the real thing is awesome! I wish I hade the room and dough to collect W.W.II German memorabilia.
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Old 11-11-2005, 03:40 PM   #13
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Thanks for sharing those great drawings

Grüssen, Anouk
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Old 02-20-2006, 02:02 AM   #14
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Bergfüher K-98?

Heersbergfüher, Maybe you can help me with this K-98 I picked up a while back, It is all matching from the bolt to the stock. It is a bcd Wilhelm-Gustloff- Werke, Weimar. It was rebarreled by byf Mauser-Werke KG Oberndorf on the Neckar. It is a 43. The Mauser Stamp on the stock i have never seeen before also the metal mount on the bottom of the stock is something I have not seen in any book.The butt plate looks to be what the Bergführer had on their 98's. Any help with this would be great.
Thanks, GB



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Old 02-20-2006, 01:05 PM   #15
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Grüß Gott Germanbilly,

That's an interesting weapon you have there. I've never seen a K-98 with a G-33/40 buttplate on it before. It's not mentioned in any references that I have and I've never seen any wartime photos of it. Could be a field modification or something that someone put together.

Horrido!
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Old 03-10-2006, 04:13 AM   #16
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You guys are awesome ! I was just about to post a new thread asking for reference photos of a short Kar 98. Got a couple in 1/6th and needed some reference photos.

Think I'll follow Patrick's recommendation....

Quote:
Follow Mountain Troopers techniques for repainting it.
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Old 03-10-2006, 10:08 AM   #17
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What an awesome collection! man it just blew my mind. I could sit and stare at these pictures for hours on end.

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Old 03-11-2006, 03:57 AM   #18
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Grüß Gott Mountain Trooper, Battlezone, und Bergkameraden,

Thanks for your great comments!!

Mountain Trooper - the short Kar 98 that you mention is actually called a G33/40 which was originally a Czech weapon and production was continued after the takeover of Czechoslovakia. This weapon was only issued to Gebirgsjägers and Fallschirmjägers.

Battlezone....I've only posted just a few morsels from my Gebirgsjäger collection...which I've been gathering over the past 20+ years.

Horrido!
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Old 03-23-2006, 02:51 PM   #19
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A very impressive collection Heeresbergführer...don't know much about the Gebirgs except for what they did on Crete.

Kyle
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Old 04-06-2006, 11:19 PM   #20
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I picked up some 1/6th and 1:1 Gebirgsjäger items this weekend at John Kozin's show. I got a repro Edelweiss Hat badge and and original Gebirgsjäger SS patch. Patrick, you were right if you look you can find 1:1 stuff fairly inexpensive.



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