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Armor, Mech and Weapons Division Showcase of 1:6 Armor, Vehicles and Weapons Projects

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Old 09-22-2007, 07:25 PM   #1
chung814
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Big toy--75mm pack howitzer

Just got my largest model/toy at all--75mm pack howitzer.

The edges are not very sharp. The material is only acceptable ot me since I prefer plastic. I don't know how long will it survive or keep the original shape because the PU resin is too heavy that I disassemble it after photographing, especially the wheel axle. And it got errors, too. However, it looks good to me after correcting the major error of the front berrel lock.

No further painting or weathering at all. To me, the quality states this howitzer as toy only. And the series of photo are just showing some details especially the transporting configuration, hope you enjoy...























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Old 09-23-2007, 10:30 AM   #2
AllanW
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If it looks good to you after correcting the front barrel lock, which (as the pictures show is a minor NOT a major error) why do you consider this a "toy"? I posted a photo from the US Army manual for this piece because it in general looked a very good representation to me - see :

http://www.sixtharmygroup.com/portal...ic.php?t=13207

Please excuse me if this comes across a little aggressively. This is not at all my intention. After buying both the model and the manual for the full scale original I am worried about what I might have missed.

Finally, do let me know if you decide that you don't like yours as I know several people who will make you a good offer for it.




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Old 09-23-2007, 03:03 PM   #3
chung814
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Well, I had said the material is not what I prefered. And the word "Toy" I defined here, is because I can not disassemble the whole thing into original parts and then sanding, correcting, painting, ... like I had done to my 1/35 models. Because it's resin, not plastic that I can use regular glue and plastic board, rods to do what I want to do.

And after I seen my brother's products who works in the company produce precice replica of weapon parts for survival games, I hope my howitzer could be new-techology built one...

Thirdly, I consider the price-quality ratio especially this is not a cheap one. And it's not easy to buy and ship to where I live(Asia area). Once the gun is broken due to any reason then I don't think I can afford to another resin one. I don't know how long the PU resin can survive, either. Once the material become brittle or hurt the paint because resin generally release it's chemical material, that means I will eventually lose this howitzer.

You can state I as a pessimist but I do had bad experiences with resin before. However, I still buy this gun. And overall quality is accepatable to me(My personal opinion though). I enjoy pack/unpack the gun with fun, too, though I have to re-paint after the paint chip off even handle with extreme care...

And according to tech manual, it is not wrong to me, either. But various photo shown on the web-site do depict the different details from one to one. Especially the big hole on the upper side of the right frame that not many have. I would also like to change it to be wooden wheel one which used by chinese army. If it's made of plastic which is lighter and easier to do with plastic material, I can build a more accurate pack howitzer suitable to my kit-bashing topic.

That's it. The syndrome of resin-fobia and also not well-transformed of mind from 1/35 modelling to 1/6 kit-bashing. But that's MY FEELING after I got this howitzer.
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Old 09-23-2007, 03:03 PM   #4
Glidah Drivah
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While I haven't yet seen one of these kits in the flesh yet, as someone who crewed one of these pack howitzers in college I have to say that the pics make it look pretty darn good. $300 is just way out of my budget, however! LOL

The link below has a few pics of the howitzers in action up in Vermont. Enjoy!!

http://www.norwich.edu/cadets/artillery.html
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Old 09-23-2007, 04:39 PM   #5
maa
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I'd have to agree that the price is just too high for this piece, though I have seen through UML shops that they actually sold out, so go figure. The quality appears to have alotta room for improvement.

Isn't there a member or two on SAG who showed a resin prototype of a up-coming kit, where is that status now ?? Be a good time to start making noise to bring it out to compete with these porcelain pieces.
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Old 09-23-2007, 05:03 PM   #6
Sixty Driver
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I was able to inspect one of these last weekend. It's a nice piece in and of itself. That being said, it is certainly not worth the $200+ dollars these sold for (that's MY opinion anyway) and as tempted as I was to buy one, I am very glad I did not.

The carriage is plastic while the gun and cradle are some sort of resin. Personally, I wouldn't pay 2 cents for any of their resin items now or in the future.

I think Chung814's assessment (thanks for the review and photos!) is spot on.
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Old 09-24-2007, 12:57 AM   #7
chung814
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Thanks for everyone's sharing of thoughts. By the way, I would like to add three more cents.

1. To correct the explicit error of the front barrel lock is not as easy as just siwtching the direction of the hooks as I thought initially. I spent some time to sand and test-fit until it works. Also plus the cost of broke and re-glued the small rectangle piece where it stands just right in front of the hook, and some re-painting as well.

2. To work with resin is the worst thing and I least want to do in my model life. Every scratch on the resin pieces of this gun, even it's the defect from original mold or prototype is hard to differentiate from real broken parts. I think my negative thoughts majorly came from point 1. And I really fear more parts will fall without any physical impact or collision.

3. I just saw a howitzer sold with bid-price of 169 USD 15 minutes ago on ebay. Though I don't think spending more or much more cost was not wise, that does indicate that this gun with the looks you can find on every photo from us, no matter the defects it have or the unique subject it won our heart, should have a reasonable price.

So, what will I do with this gun? Nothing now. However, while the resin parts end up their lifetime far before mine, I will keep the plastic frame and rebuild the rest with any effort I can put in. And if we have more chances to see this howitzer in the near future with far better quality like PANZERWERK done, I might buy another one...
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Old 09-24-2007, 01:41 AM   #8
chung814
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Resemblance, Komodo Dragon vs Pack Howitzer


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Old 09-24-2007, 07:42 AM   #9
AllanW
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So let's try to sum up your opinion :

1. the front barrel lock, as shown in your photos, is incorrect
2. you don't like the use of resin
3. you think it looks like a komodo dragon
4. it is over-priced.

Yet all the replies here (including yours) concede that it is an accurate scale representation, save for the barrel lock.

I agree that the model seems unnecessarily expensive. I am also concerned about the possible motivation for launching this model, given the much earlier announcement by Panzerwerk. Like you, I will definitely be buying from Panzerwerk when their version comes out.

I do, however, think that readers of this forum are entitled to be given a balanced review of the model. So, for those who like to play "spot the difference" , here is a photo of the kimodo dragon from the US Army manual :

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Old 09-24-2007, 08:25 AM   #10
chung814
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Totally agree with your conclusion. And the official pic on the tech manual represent the komodo dragon perfectly!!

By the way, I don't have the modification list with respect to the service life for this howitzer, but I think anyone who build this howitzer again with the following 4 points will be welcomed:

1. the flat upper edge of the notch on the lower gun berrel sleeve just like your manual photo(DML got the slope edge)

2. no hole on the upper surface of the right frame(I really don't know why DML dig the big hole, will some field modification become factory standard??)

3. four bases on the front frame which can put the barrel assembly on them and fastened for transportation configuration(DML only got two, and did not fit the diameter of the rear axle)

4. any possiblilty of changing tyre configuration to wooden whell ones, even sold the wheel assembly separately would be OK

And once anybody really want to tow this howitzer after the jeep, point 3 will be a must. And I can imagine how great a diorama for such a late war ETO subject would be done.

And, if I was not asking too much, when can we get an accurate 1/35 one? with 37mm gun as well. That will be the two jewels on the crown!!
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Old 09-24-2007, 08:50 AM   #11
Jeff Herne
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I've cast resin for years, ship models mostly, so that's where the higher cost stems. Resin cast are usually more expensive for a couple of reasons - first, the molds are the expensive part - not the resin itself. The average mold will survive 50-60 pulls if it's not aggressive. Aggressive molds (overhangs, sharp edges, etc.) generally only go 30-40 pulls, some even less.

The second (and probably determining factor) is that because the parts are resin-cast, the manufacturer is probably more inclined to try and get back as much of his investment in the shortest time possible. Were this an all-plastic injection-molded kit, the price would be lower, although the volume would be higher to offset the tooling costs.

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Old 09-24-2007, 09:14 AM   #12
chung814
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Thanks for your experience sharing, Jeff.

As from your precious experience, what will be the life time of PU resin that DML seemed use for their howitzer? Especially when the resin cast is not for static display as most small scale models do, but regularly played by hands like most 1/6 player will act?

Thanks again for your advice.
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Old 09-24-2007, 02:46 PM   #13
Jeff Herne
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If the resin was properly mixed, if the molds were allowed to de-gas, and if the resin was allowed to cure fully before it was painted, then it won't break down on the molecular level, i.e., it won't become brittle over time or melt into a green blob of goo...

It is a resilient chemical but is brittle. It will handle 98% of the normal wear and tear you'd apply to it. It is brittle however, especially in lower temperatures. The biggest chance of breakage will come from dropping it or trying to force parts.

As far as altering it goes, resin responds well to CA glues (Cyanoacrylate - super glue), especially if the parts are rough sanded to provide some tooth for the parts to be joined. In most cases, the strength of the resin will exceed the shear strength of the glue.

What this means, basically, is that if you don't like the shape of a part, remove it, cut it, sharpen the edges by flat sanding, then repaint and re-attach.

A long time ago...I wanted a Hinchcliffe 1/6 .50M2 machine gun and tripod. It was a white metal/resin kit with a retail in excess of $150.

I bought a 21st Century model, stripped it, flat sanded the surfaces and repainted it. I eventually got the HInchcliffe kit and I like the 21st Century M2 better.

Jeff
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Old 09-24-2007, 03:03 PM   #14
panzerwerk
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i just want to add , the brand of resin you use matters greatly too , quality resin make all the difference in the world .
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Old 09-24-2007, 03:15 PM   #15
chung814
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TKS for all your professional advices. Now I feel more confident about correct resin.
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Old 09-24-2007, 03:43 PM   #16
Jeff Herne
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Absolutely...when I was casting ships, we used Vagabond 4032-H resin and Gi-1000 rubber for our molds. The stuff ain't cheap, about $4.50 per pound, and we'd run through 150-175 pounds a week (about 20 gallons).

At one time we had 5 36" pressure pots working non-stop...I miss it, but then again, I'm soooo happy I'm out of that side of the business!

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Old 09-24-2007, 04:30 PM   #17
panzerwerk
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i still love casting even after all the years of doing it for both the hobby and the movie business , we have had to recently switch our silicone as the stuff we used was bought by a Chinese company , we try our best to use as much American produced materials and subcontract to American companies (Brass shells and injection molded parts) all our resin products are made right here in the U.S.A and all our injection molded parts are made right here too , the only thing i have had produced in China is our upcoming uni set exclusive for the Show in Vegas , sewing is not cheap here , and even in China Manufacturing is increasing in price by the week , so for a few pennies more per part ,i would rather have my products made here if possible .
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Old 09-24-2007, 08:51 PM   #18
Jeff Herne
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In my best NY accent (yes, I'm a NYer)...

Fergitaboutit, I ain't casting for ya...but I will do pattern work.

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