Omaha beach questions

[1stIDSgt.]

Hey everybody,
i have been looking at this board for a couple weeks and decided to join up.
i just have some real easy question for some of you all history buffs about d-day, specifically omaha beach. after seeing Big Red One's (the member) photo shoot of the 1st ID, i have been inspired to do someting along the lines and just needed to clear somethings up.

1. What exactly would the German infantry be wearing when the allies began the attack? would they have time to put on zeltbhans/smocks, or even all their gear?
2. would the germans have panzerfausts/shreks available out of the bunkers or trenches? just a yes or no is easy enough, did they have them that morning
3. i know the rangers wore HBTs but would it be okay to outfit the 1st and 29th with them as well? im aware they wore wool uniforms but there are none out there i truley love. i like to have the darker brown pants from nagashima but i cant find anywhere selling them loose online. needed about 25-30 sets. but i can get mike connolys HBTs easy enough
4. by the 1st wave would any ally armor or vehicle be on the beach or would they still be stuck in the channel?
5. i have the book "The story of DDay" by bruce bliven jr. and he says that the americans, when loaded into the LCVPs it was as follows, a junior officer with 5 riflemen up front, then a 4 man wire cutting team, follwed by 2 BAR team (4 men), after them 2 bazooka team (4 men), a 4 man morotr team, then 2 flamerthrowers, then 5 demolition troops, then a senoir officer and 1 or 2 medics in back
now all that being said, any truth to this or did the soldiers just fit in wear they could? afterall its dark, wet, and there was no room and it jsut doesnt seem like this is too important but if it is true then i would like to set my troops in this order.
6. ok, last one, please bare with me, again, i know the rangers and some guys form the 29th wore the assault vest but would any member of the 1st wear them? maybe speical units, demolitions, wire cutters etc?

i appriciate any help with all my questions and hope to have a good time here, it seems welcoming
BTW- the names brendon
thanks

 

[1stlooey]

I'll put in my best guesses.

Only 2 tanks made it ashore on Omaha beach that morning. I believe they were Shermans with the swimming tank gear.

The Panzerfaust Klein (Gretchen) was the one in use as of 6/6/44. The larger ones came into use in 9/44.

 

[Big Red One]

Hi Brendon

My thoughts:

The German forces had plenty of time to be fully equiped and dressed.
While Im no expert on the German subject, Chapter Three of my "Omaha Beach" Story will feature German forces dressed in standard Wehrmacht-Heer uniforms, some along with Zeltbhans and Smocks.
They will also be armmed with Panzerfausts and most other German equipment, which I think by this time in the war was available.
While I know everybody(Including myself) tries to strive for historical accuracy, I some times think to much fuss is made about it in the hobby.

I don't have no Rangers yet, But I will be adding some 29th troops to the scence and they will be outfitted with the "Mike Connolly" Uniform.

The 1st ID should have the darker brown pants in my opinion, and the "Nagashima" pants are what I used.
Most were purchased from "THE BATTLE RHINO" "RED PLANET TOYS" or "JUSTICE FIGHTERS"

Note: One of the Dragon "Patton" figures has the exact same pants as the "Nagashima" Figure. I used a few pair of them as well.


I supose the was a pecking order to the types of teams on the LCA's, but I would not lose any sleep over not having a certain mortar team.. etc..
on board.


I think something like 27 of 29 of the tanks never made it to shore at Omaha, and the few that did get ashore were quickly taken out by German defenses. So The 1st and 29th had NO Armor support and were basically sitting ducks.

As for the assualt vest, I simpley couldn't find any or I would have outfitted a few of my 1st ID with them.
Remember that these guys could have been wearing anything and that none of them would be dressed and equiped EXACTLY the same.
Airbore boots were highly sought after by Army troops and could have been obtain in many ways and Im sure the same is true for D-Day equipment. If a guy wanted that assualt vest or any other piece of equipment, he could have gotten it.


While historical accuracy is important to aim for, I don't worry to much about the critics who nit pic that you have the wrong buttons on the shirts.
I just have fun doing the best I can and if thats not good enough for the nay sayers, who cares! I had fun and enjoyed it!


Can't wait to see your set-up

take care


Can't wait to see your set-up

John

 

[1stIDSgt.]

thanks guys for both repsonses.
Big Red One- i appriciate you time and as ive said, youre photoshoot has inspired me to try this.
I went ahead and took your advice about Nag's/Pattons pants at the three stores but couldnt find any so for now i will have to live with connolly's or lou's(which i dont really like)
And i understand what your saying about the ordering in the landing craft but i read it and i just didnt think that they would be in a specific order so thats why i asked.
oh, and big red one, BTW- anychance that you have plans or measurments of that landing craft you made? that is more or less a necesity as you know to create a omaha beach dio.
your right as well about the assault vest, i had just searched for dml millers and the bbi one and came up with nada

so all that being said, again, i thank you for your time and answers
and i cant wait for part 3 of your series, any idea on when you will be presenting it to the rest of us?
thanks again

-Brendon

 

[USMCWayne]

The best resource on the seaborne invasion portion of D-Day is Jon Gawne's Spearheading D-Day. Jon also moderates the Real History Groundpounders portion of SAGs forum.

He and Mark Bando are about as powerful a duo of current historians, regarding the airborne and seaborne portions of D-Day (and other WW II history), as you could ask for.

I'm with other people, in that I strive for historical accuracy, but do sacrifice some points in the general interest of having fun. I've read a lot and studied the period a bit more than some, and a lot less than others. I still tend to ignore something if I don't think it's that important.

My German Wehrmacht uniforms are fairly devoid of markings and insignia, sort of the like the generic Krauts in a Combat! episode. I have a couple late wave support troopers wearing buckle boots, but have never bothered to check to see if buckle boots were being used in June 1944. And I don't think I've ever moved a button from the left (closed) side of a jacket to the right (open) side when a troop is walking around with his jacket open.

As for your questions, I'll hazard a few responses.

1. Yes, they'd be kitted out, in whatever they had. The invasion may have been a surprise, but that doesn't mean the Germans didn't have time to get dressed.

2. Yes, I'd guess fausts and shreks would have been available at the point of the invasion, but probably by troops not specifically assigned to a bunker. If a troop was in a bunker, I imagine they'd of had typically assigned bunker weapons.

3. According to Jon's above-mentioned book, "all documentary evidence indicates that the assault troops of the 16th (1st ID) and 116th (29th ID) Regiments wore the impregnated wool uniform". The 8th Regiment (4th ID at Utah) was ordered to wear impregnated HBT's.

4. On Omaha, four companies of tanks from the 741st and 743rd Tank Battalions were supposed to lead the RCT's (Regimental Combat Teams) ashore. 2 of 32 DD tanks in the 741st (assigned to the 16th Regiment) "swam" to shore, and 3 others were taken directly to shore. "most" of the 32 DD tanks supporting the 116th Regiment got to shore, with 18 (I think) being destroyed by gunfire or mines.

5. In the Army, everything is done for a reason. The assault boats carried 30 men, three across, ten deep, each man with a very specific position. Your rundown is correct. Jon's above book has an excellent color coded picture of a LCVP, showing exactly where each trooper was standing.

Jon's book, again, has a exceptional rundown of why the boat team was mixed a certain way, and the purpose and role of each man of the 30 on board.

6. Jon's book (again ) has an entire chapter on the issuance and use of the assault jacket on D-Day, with more photo documentation than you or I will ever need. 3,500 jackets were sent to both the 1st and 29th Divisions.

3,500 of the 6,535 men in the 16th Infantry Regiment Combat Team should have been issued an assault jacket. The jackets were regarded as trendy and desireable, so some of the 3,500 probably found their way onto the backs of non-assault troops. The assumption though, is that most were delivered to first wave assault troops and those who were attached to the first waves.

 

[Big Red One]

thanks guys for both repsonses.
Big Red One- i appriciate you time and as ive said, youre photoshoot has inspired me to try this.
I went ahead and took your advice about Nag's/Pattons pants at the three stores but couldnt find any so for now i will have to live with connolly's or lou's(which i dont really like)
And i understand what your saying about the ordering in the landing craft but i read it and i just didnt think that they would be in a specific order so thats why i asked.
oh, and big red one, BTW- anychance that you have plans or measurments of that landing craft you made? that is more or less a necesity as you know to create a omaha beach dio.
your right as well about the assault vest, i had just searched for dml millers and the bbi one and came up with nada

so all that being said, again, i thank you for your time and answers
and i cant wait for part 3 of your series, any idea on when you will be presenting it to the rest of us?
thanks again

-Brendon

Wish I could help ya with the "Nagashima" pants, Just have to keep checking online sites, you'll find them sooner or later.

USMC Wayne's reply was very informative and I will try to use some of his advice and info in my next chapter.

Im still waiting on a few custom items before I can start "Chapter Three"
I also still have alot of "bugs" to work out in how to go about the Beach set-up. I prefer to do "Table-Top" set-ups because I can control everything in that enviorment and because it allows me to get better angles when photographing. It may be awhile yet.

The Higgings boat I built is TWO Feet Wide by SIX Feet long (Its Big)
The Real boats were 36 ft long. I don't really have any kind of plans or drawings for the boat. I just kinda free handed it all. I basically made a pattern and cut 25 "Risers". I then mounted the risers on a flat piece of 1/4 inch plywood at using a spacer block between each riser. It was then just a matter of covering the risers(Skeleton) with plywood.
If I am going to do a Table top Set-up using my boat, Im going to have to use three sheets of 4x8 plywood to give me an area of 8 x 12 feet to recreate the entire beach scene. Its gonna be alot of work.

I had a chance to pick up 2 of the "Captain Miller" assualt vest on e-bay.
I may have went $8 - $10 each on them, but they went for $15.00 each!
I won't give that for them. The BBI vest you spoke of, is that the Red Parker? I would like to obtain a few of the assualt vest and make some 29th troops before I can do chapter three.


Good Luck!
John

 

[1stIDSgt.]

Big Red One,
i know what you mean about the landing craft, i usually make things as you said, free hand, actually the last thing was a german field police post house.
but any ways, in your other post you have posted a small picture of the floor and i can see the risers you are talking about. if it is not much trouble for you, would it be possible to take some pictures and post them? maybe like the sides, back, inside just to give me and idea as ive never really seen one that has gone into much detail. i would appriciate it but if you cant, its cool, i can try my best. at least i'd have one right? lol

as for the blue box toys assault vest, im not sure of the name as they do not give it on the bbi site but it is not red parker. he is the mortor soldier, the one i was refering to was the 5th army ranger, here is a link to his page
http://www.blueboxtoys.com/bbi/wwii/ww2x6/2.html
its a nice vest, but again, i cant find them anywhere. my local hobby store has him in stock, as well as miller but the vest it the only thing i need and dont want to spend the extra cash for unnesacary items/uniforms that probly wouldnt even do well on a trade list.
so happy huntung to you and again, cant wait for part 3

 

[USMCWayne]

$15.00 for a Miller assault jacket may not have been too bad a price, as the Cotswold verison is still going for $14.99 at their web site

The BBI jacket came with their early 5th Ranger figure

 

[USMCWayne]

Please don't fight over this BBI one, currently going for 99-cents...but five days left on the auction.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=27294&item=5985470392&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

 

[Big Red One]

1stIDSGT

I have a few extra Risers that I cut And did not use. I will try to get some other pics as well. Although Im happy with the boat, it is by no means perfect or anything. Im sure some of the top modelers out there could make a more detailed one.

USMCWayne came through with some assualt vest info Thanks!

I rarely if ever buy anything from Costwold. They are to unreasonaly high priced on their stuff.

the other thing is..... Im a tightwad!